Community > Forum > Technology & Science > A Return to the Moon by the Apollo 11 50th Anniversary.

A Return to the Moon by the Apollo 11 50th Anniversary.

Posted by: RGClark - Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:32 am
Post new topic Reply to topic
 [ 54 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
A Return to the Moon by the Apollo 11 50th Anniversary. 
Author Message
Space Walker
Space Walker
avatar
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:18 am
Posts: 211
Post Re: A Return to the Moon by the Apollo 11 50th Anniversary.   Posted on: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:17 pm
A manned lunar landing flight for less than $100 million in launch cost, assuming the Falcon Heavy really does hit the $1,000 per pound price point:

Budget Moon flights.
http://exoscientist.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... ights.html

Notably it uses European stages for the translunar injection and lander stages. Then you could have an all European mission if using an Ariane 5 ME and a separate human-rated European launcher for crew instead of a Falcon Heavy.
As I discussed before, a European human-rated launcher is doable by just selecting for the Ariane 6 the all-liquid fueled version. This could also be ready by the same 2017-2018 time frame for the Ariane 5 ME.
This is another advantage of the liquid-fueled version of the Ariane 6. It could also allow low cost European manned lunar flights around the same time as the Americans.


Bob Clark

_________________
Single-stage-to-orbit was already shown possible 50 years ago with the Titan II first stage.
Contrary to popular belief, SSTO's in fact are actually easy. Just use the most efficient engines
and stages at the same time, and the result will automatically be SSTO.
Blog: http://exoscientist.blogspot.com


Back to top
Profile WWW
Space Walker
Space Walker
avatar
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:18 am
Posts: 211
Post Re: A Return to the Moon by the Apollo 11 50th Anniversary.   Posted on: Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:30 pm
RGClark wrote:
A manned lunar landing flight for less than $100 million in launch cost, assuming the Falcon Heavy really does hit the $1,000 per pound price point:

Budget Moon flights.
http://exoscientist.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... ights.html

Notably it uses European stages for the translunar injection and lander stages. Then you could have an all European mission if using an Ariane 5 ME and a separate human-rated European launcher for crew instead of a Falcon Heavy.
As I discussed before, a European human-rated launcher is doable by just selecting for the Ariane 6 the all-liquid fueled version. This could also be ready by the same 2017-2018 time frame for the Ariane 5 ME.
This is another advantage of the liquid-fueled version of the Ariane 6. It could also allow low cost European manned lunar flights around the same time as the Americans.


Bob Clark


Calculations for the all-liquid fueled Ariane 6 core as a SSTO:

FRIDAY, MARCH 29, 2013
The Coming SSTO's: multi-Vulcain Ariane.
http://exoscientist.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... riane.html

Bob Clark

_________________
Single-stage-to-orbit was already shown possible 50 years ago with the Titan II first stage.
Contrary to popular belief, SSTO's in fact are actually easy. Just use the most efficient engines
and stages at the same time, and the result will automatically be SSTO.
Blog: http://exoscientist.blogspot.com


Back to top
Profile WWW
Space Walker
Space Walker
avatar
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:18 am
Posts: 211
Post Re: A Return to the Moon by the Apollo 11 50th Anniversary.   Posted on: Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:38 pm
Great news here:

SPACE
NASA Plans to Make Water on the Moon.
APR 12, 2013 07:50 PM ET // BY IRENE KLOTZ
Quote:
NASA is developing a lunar rover to find and analyze water and other
materials trapped in deep freezes at the moon’s poles and to
demonstrate how water can be made on site.
Slated to fly in November 2017, the mission, called Regolith and
Environment Science and Oxygen and Lunar Volatile Extraction
(RESOLVE), will have a week to accomplish its goals.
To stay within a tight $250 million budget cap -- including the rocket
ride to the moon -- project managers are planning to use solar energy
to power the rover’s systems and science instruments. However,
sunlight on the places where water and other volatiles may be trapped
only occurs for a few days at a time.
http://news.discovery.com/space/making- ... 130412.htm


This mission builds on the LCROSS mission. I consider LCROSS to be
one of the most successful planetary missions ever developed since it
returned such profoundly important results at such low cost. The cost/
benefit ratio was tremendous. (As a mathematician I suppose I should
express that as the benefit/cost ratio was tremendous. :wink: ) I hope NASA
selects the same award-winning managers as for the LCROSS mission.

I do have a question about the mission. The article describes it will
have a limited lifetime because of the limited sunlight at the
location it will visit. But I recall there were locations close to
some shadowed craters that were nearly continually bathed in sunlight.
Could these locations be used to get a longer mission?

Bob Clark

_________________
Single-stage-to-orbit was already shown possible 50 years ago with the Titan II first stage.
Contrary to popular belief, SSTO's in fact are actually easy. Just use the most efficient engines
and stages at the same time, and the result will automatically be SSTO.
Blog: http://exoscientist.blogspot.com


Back to top
Profile WWW
Space Walker
Space Walker
avatar
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:18 am
Posts: 211
Post Re: A Return to the Moon by the Apollo 11 50th Anniversary.   Posted on: Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:16 pm
RGClark wrote:
RGClark wrote:
A manned lunar landing flight for less than $100 million in launch cost, assuming the Falcon Heavy really does hit the $1,000 per pound price point:

Budget Moon flights.
http://exoscientist.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... ights.html

Notably it uses European stages for the translunar injection and lander stages. Then you could have an all European mission if using an Ariane 5 ME and a separate human-rated European launcher for crew instead of a Falcon Heavy.
As I discussed before, a European human-rated launcher is doable by just selecting for the Ariane 6 the all-liquid fueled version. This could also be ready by the same 2017-2018 time frame for the Ariane 5 ME.
This is another advantage of the liquid-fueled version of the Ariane 6. It could also allow low cost European manned lunar flights around the same time as the Americans.


Bob Clark


Calculations for the all-liquid fueled Ariane 6 core as a SSTO:

FRIDAY, MARCH 29, 2013
The Coming SSTO's: multi-Vulcain Ariane.
http://exoscientist.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... riane.html

Bob Clark


Discussion of a low cost European crew capsule:

Budget Moon flights: lightweight crew capsule.
http://exoscientist.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... -crew.html


Bob Clark

_________________
Single-stage-to-orbit was already shown possible 50 years ago with the Titan II first stage.
Contrary to popular belief, SSTO's in fact are actually easy. Just use the most efficient engines
and stages at the same time, and the result will automatically be SSTO.
Blog: http://exoscientist.blogspot.com


Back to top
Profile WWW
Space Walker
Space Walker
avatar
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:18 am
Posts: 211
Post Re: A Return to the Moon by the Apollo 11 50th Anniversary.   Posted on: Tue May 07, 2013 9:14 am
RGClark wrote:
RGClark wrote:
RGClark wrote:
A manned lunar landing flight for less than $100 million in launch cost, assuming the Falcon Heavy really does hit the $1,000 per pound price point:

Budget Moon flights.
http://exoscientist.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... ights.html

Notably it uses European stages for the translunar injection and lander stages. Then you could have an all European mission if using an Ariane 5 ME and a separate human-rated European launcher for crew instead of a Falcon Heavy.
As I discussed before, a European human-rated launcher is doable by just selecting for the Ariane 6 the all-liquid fueled version. This could also be ready by the same 2017-2018 time frame for the Ariane 5 ME.
This is another advantage of the liquid-fueled version of the Ariane 6. It could also allow low cost European manned lunar flights around the same time as the Americans.


Calculations for the all-liquid fueled Ariane 6 core as a SSTO:

FRIDAY, MARCH 29, 2013
The Coming SSTO's: multi-Vulcain Ariane.
http://exoscientist.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... riane.html


Discussion of a low cost European crew capsule:

Budget Moon flights: lightweight crew capsule.
http://exoscientist.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... -crew.html



According to NASA administrator Charles Bolden, NASA will not be
returning us to the Moon(*) but may engage in partnerships with other
space agencies or private entities who could.
Then it's interesting the ESA has the required lightweight in-space
stages and lightweight capsule in the Cygnus to accomplish this at low
cost.
Another key fact is that NASA has shown with SpaceX and now with
Orbital Sciences that development costs can be cut drastically (by 80
to 90% !) by following a commercial approach.
Then this could be a project NASA could encourage, at low cost to
NASA, by partnering with ESA and private entities like Golden Spike,
while at the same time satisfying the critics who want us to return to
the Moon.

Bob Clark

(*)US Won't Lead New Manned Moon Landings, NASA Chief Says.
by Miriam Kramer, SPACE.com Staff Writer
Date: 08 April 2013 Time: 01:41 PM ET
http://www.space.com/20557-nasa-moon-mi ... olden.html

_________________
Single-stage-to-orbit was already shown possible 50 years ago with the Titan II first stage.
Contrary to popular belief, SSTO's in fact are actually easy. Just use the most efficient engines
and stages at the same time, and the result will automatically be SSTO.
Blog: http://exoscientist.blogspot.com


Back to top
Profile WWW
Space Walker
Space Walker
avatar
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:18 am
Posts: 211
Post Re: A Return to the Moon by the Apollo 11 50th Anniversary.   Posted on: Thu May 23, 2013 3:12 pm
NASA's commercial spaceflight program has the solution for not only
making the U.S. a space faring nation, but for making humanity a space
faring species:

On the lasting importance of the SpaceX accomplishment, Page 3:
towards European human spaceflight.
http://exoscientist.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... pacex.html

Bob Clark

_________________
Single-stage-to-orbit was already shown possible 50 years ago with the Titan II first stage.
Contrary to popular belief, SSTO's in fact are actually easy. Just use the most efficient engines
and stages at the same time, and the result will automatically be SSTO.
Blog: http://exoscientist.blogspot.com


Back to top
Profile WWW
Space Walker
Space Walker
avatar
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:18 am
Posts: 211
Post Re: A Return to the Moon by the Apollo 11 50th Anniversary.   Posted on: Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:43 am
The cost to NASA for lunar or other BEO missions can be cut drastically,
perhaps by three orders of magnitude, by adopting a combination
of four cost-cutting approaches:

1.)Commercial space approach. SpaceX and now Orbital Sciences have
shown that as much as 90% off of the development cost can be cut by
the cost-sharing of the commercial space approach.

2.)Go small. NASA’s SEV weighs about a third that of Orion. Orbital’s
Cygnus weighs about a quarter. Imagine how small, and low cost, your
lunar mission could be if you only had to transport a quarter of the
mass to the Moon.

3.)Use existing components. The huge development costs for the Apollo
program and of Constellation were because they had to use all newly
developed components. Those costs would be reduced greatly if you only
had to adapt already existing components. No Saturn V, Ares V, or SLS,
and their huge development costs, required.

4.)Use international partners. The cut in development cost by engaging
in cost-sharing is already included in the commercial space approach.
However, the cost to NASA can be cut even further by sharing
development costs with our international space partners such as the
ESA and Japan.

The advantages of extending the commercial space approach to BEO flights I discuss here:

Budget Moon Flights: letter to NASA.
http://exoscientist.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... -nasa.html

The National Research Council is soliciting input from the public
about what direction NASA should take regarding human spaceflight:

NRC Committee on Human Spaceflight Needs Input.
Posted by Marc Boucher Posted June 4, 2013 8:30 AM
Quote:
The National Research Council Committee on Human Spaceflight Needs is
looking for input
from communities interested in human exploration. The deadline for
submissions is July 9.

http://spaceref.com/exploration/nrc-com ... input.html

Now's the time to let YOUR vision for space be heard!

Bob Clark

_________________
Single-stage-to-orbit was already shown possible 50 years ago with the Titan II first stage.
Contrary to popular belief, SSTO's in fact are actually easy. Just use the most efficient engines
and stages at the same time, and the result will automatically be SSTO.
Blog: http://exoscientist.blogspot.com


Back to top
Profile WWW
Space Walker
Space Walker
avatar
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:18 am
Posts: 211
Post Re: A Return to the Moon by the Apollo 11 50th Anniversary.   Posted on: Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:26 am
NASA is asking for partnerships with commercial entities to develop small cargo lunar landers:

Headlines > News > NASA Announces Partnership Opportunities for U.S. Commercial Lunar Lander Capabilities.
Published by Klaus Schmidt on Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:02 am via: NASA
http://spacefellowship.com/news/art3684 ... ities.html

However, I think NASA would do well to extend this also to large landers that could be used for manned flight, as well as cargo flights.

On another forum it was mentioned Dave Masten of Masten Space Systems in a SpaceVidcast video discussed adapting a Centaur upper stage to serve as a lunar lander. In the video he estimates it to cost in the range of only $50 million(!)

The discussion on the lunar lander takes place about 15 minutes into the one hour video. Masten also mentions this modified Centaur could transport 6 metric tons between a Lagrange point, L1 or L2, and the lunar surface. Such a lander could also be used between low lunar orbit and the lunar surface, as for a manned mission from Earth:

A (mostly) commercial architecture for solar system exploration - YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzlJd3Pbpxg

If true, then it is unconscionable that NASA claims a return to the Moon can’t be done because a lander would cost ca. $10 billion, when it can actually be done two orders of magnitude more cheaply than that. In any case NASA needs to do a study to see if this conversion of a Centaur to a lander can actually be done so cheaply.

Bob Clark

_________________
Single-stage-to-orbit was already shown possible 50 years ago with the Titan II first stage.
Contrary to popular belief, SSTO's in fact are actually easy. Just use the most efficient engines
and stages at the same time, and the result will automatically be SSTO.
Blog: http://exoscientist.blogspot.com


Back to top
Profile WWW
Space Station Commander
Space Station Commander
User avatar
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:15 pm
Posts: 884
Location: Columbus, GA USA
Post Re: A Return to the Moon by the Apollo 11 50th Anniversary.   Posted on: Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:12 am
Not enough high profile NASA PM slots, big-ticket prime and sub contract awards, nor congressional palms to grease that way...


Back to top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 54 posts ] 
 

Who is online 

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests


© 2014 The International Space Fellowship, developed by Gabitasoft Interactive. All Rights Reserved.  Privacy Policy | Terms of Use