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The imortal machinery behind autism and exomicrobiology

Posted by: Sigma - Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:34 am
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The imortal machinery behind autism and exomicrobiology 
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Post The imortal machinery behind autism and exomicrobiology   Posted on: Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:34 am
One thing that has been in my mind lately was a microbe set called spore forming rods and they are very very hard to kill.... they are in the clostridia family.... the produce potent toxins inside the intestines of children with regressive autism that are thought to cause it... along with a host of other bacteria and yeasts that cause symptoms ranging from paralysis to irretable bowl syndrome ..... but are almost impossible to kill, when threatened they go into spore mode, and out wait any threat and emerge later to ravage again......

If we can spen billions on bombs and guns and spaceships maybe we can fight the odds that are stacking against us....
In south korea the autism rate.is 1 in 35.... here it goes up every day..... as someone with aspbergers I can tell you it hurts to not he understood... and now my 2yr old has regressive autism and I don't know how to fight this battle without help from real science.....

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Post Re: The imortal machinery behind autism and exomicrobiology   Posted on: Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:31 pm
Don't take this as an offense or the wrong way but the root question is: Are the microbes getting tougher or are people getting weaker?

Children with genetic defects or simply poor adaption who would not survive naturally are able to with our technology (antibiotics & drugs, pre-term delivery, corrective surgery, etc) and then reproduce passing on their weakened genetic code. This is compounding generation after generation, made even worse by environmental contamination by harmful chemicals, which is why I think we are seeing such an increase in mental and physical disorders. The developed countries are now dependent on technology for reproductive health. If there were a social collapse, or even if the available supply of reproductive or pediatric medical care were to be reduced, you might see a skyrocket in infant and maternal mortality greater than it was pre-indusrial/scientific revolution.

So I think that is the "800 lb. gorilla in the room" that no one wants to talk about, because it's personal, and because it brings to mind eugenics and Nietzscheism. Its much easier to talk about technological solutions to overcome the problem, or to blame pollution, because it's deeply personal and it goes against basic human instinct to "self police" our own gene pool". It used to be that a harsh climate and the lions used to do that for us. Now, it's a problem that intertwines, science, ethics, and the conflict between self-interest, and long-term interests of the species.

Hopefully there will be a nice "Have your cake and eat it too" where we can respect and preserve each life, while correcting for the lack of natural selection improvement by such things as nanotechnology and genetic engineering.

We all and especially you Sigma are in that strange, ironic, point in time where we can conceptualize and see such technology "just on the horizon", but yet its not ready now when we need it today. Hopefully there will be a solution for you.


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Post Re: The imortal machinery behind autism and exomicrobiology   Posted on: Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:58 pm
I don't think the S. Korea rate has anything to do with bacteria. It's important to not confuse sameness of symptoms with sameness of cause. A lot of autism seems to be genetic in origin, not toxin-related. Though, how an individual with autism might respond to a given toxin might be different than how a baseline would respond... hmmm... must pursue further...

Are you on WrongPlanet, Sigma?

When it comes to bacteria, however, I believe viruses are our most potent tool. We might be able to get ones which will co-evolve with the dangerous bacteria, so that they'll keep fighting, and fighting, and fighting...

Though, I don't like to hear autism referred to as a disorder. I'm not disordered. In fact I'd say Aspergers makes me more ordered...


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Post Re: The imortal machinery behind autism and exomicrobiology   Posted on: Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:50 am
Speaking of mental illness, I have bipolar. I think that it will be possible to fix my illness permanently in the future. And as to evolution - when we are able to change people's dna at will, which will happen sooner rather than later, we won't have to worry about it.

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Post Re: The imortal machinery behind autism and exomicrobiology   Posted on: Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:59 am
JamesG wrote:
Don't take this as an offense or the wrong way but the root question is: Are the microbes getting tougher or are people getting weaker?

Children with genetic defects or simply poor adaption who would not survive naturally are able to with our technology (antibiotics & drugs, pre-term delivery, corrective surgery, etc) and then reproduce passing on their weakened genetic code. This is compounding generation after generation, made even worse by environmental contamination by harmful chemicals, which is why I think we are seeing such an increase in mental and physical disorders. The developed countries are now dependent on technology for reproductive health. If there were a social collapse, or even if the available supply of reproductive or pediatric medical care were to be reduced, you might see a skyrocket in infant and maternal mortality greater than it was pre-indusrial/scientific revolution.

So I think that is the "800 lb. gorilla in the room" that no one wants to talk about, because it's personal, and because it brings to mind eugenics and Nietzscheism. Its much easier to talk about technological solutions to overcome the problem, or to blame pollution, because it's deeply personal and it goes against basic human instinct to "self police" our own gene pool". It used to be that a harsh climate and the lions used to do that for us. Now, it's a problem that intertwines, science, ethics, and the conflict between self-interest, and long-term interests of the species.

Hopefully there will be a nice "Have your cake and eat it too" where we can respect and preserve each life, while correcting for the lack of natural selection improvement by such things as nanotechnology and genetic engineering.

We all and especially you Sigma are in that strange, ironic, point in time where we can conceptualize and see such technology "just on the horizon", but yet its not ready now when we need it today. Hopefully there will be a solution for you.


Modern medicine certainly helped to increase the frequency of alleles that don't work "properly" but i think the beauty of the system is that this is actually an advantage. It allows for more allele combinations to play the evolutionary game. On the level of individuals this might seem detrimental, but looking at it on the population level this situation is pure evolution in action.

When times are kind to populations they increase in numbers and "dormant" alleles with low frequencies get to combine or get modified further, then when *** hits the fan the beneficial combinations become "dominant". How could we know ahead of time that the alleles responsible for autism aren't going to be dominant ones playing roles in the brains of our descendants allowing them to be even more smart, or just resistant to some nasty virus.

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Post Re: The imortal machinery behind autism and exomicrobiology   Posted on: Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:37 pm
I hope that survival of the fittest isn't too prevalent in today's society (at least in the developed world), but I think that genetic diversity is good and healthy for humanity.

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Post Re: The imortal machinery behind autism and exomicrobiology   Posted on: Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:02 am
box wrote:
It allows for more allele combinations to play the evolutionary game. On the level of individuals this might seem detrimental, but looking at it on the population level this situation is pure evolution in action.


Actually the other way around. It allows individuals who naturally would not survive or who might not be able to reproduce to pass on their genes, a "win" for them personally. But from a population's perspective, it weakens the species.

Quote:
When times are kind to populations they increase in numbers and "dormant" alleles with low frequencies get to combine or get modified further, then when *** hits the fan the beneficial combinations become "dominant".


Unless those beneficial combinations get so diluted out that you don't have a viable population without technological support.

Quote:
How could we know ahead of time that the alleles responsible for autism aren't going to be dominant ones playing roles in the brains of our descendants allowing them to be even more smart, or just resistant to some nasty virus.


That is a good point.

Anyway, didn't mean to skew this off-topic so badly. I think autism is partially environmental and partially clinical. All the chemicals that have entered the human environment in the past 40 years are having their effect. Also the bugs are adapting and evolving around our anti-biotics and to take advantage of the attractive target and vector that the ever increasing urban human population represents. Also I've read that the threshold for autism is being lowered to help, and cynically, so that those who treat it can increase their customer base.


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Post Re: The imortal machinery behind autism and exomicrobiology   Posted on: Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:17 am
BTW- Box, read your Private Messages. :P


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Post Re: The imortal machinery behind autism and exomicrobiology   Posted on: Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:11 pm
JamesG wrote:
BTW- Box, read your Private Messages. :P

I replied yesterday, but I am not sure if it sent, it is sitting in my outbox.

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