ATO cargo capacity?

Yes, This is a verry intriging consept. I hope thay do it! I'd love to help them out! I wonder if they need or want any help over there? I don't know how much I could help but I bet I can cheer them on at least. Do you think it will work Ekkehard?

Monroe

Why?

The concept itself is sound, but personally I'd like to see a crewed flight sometime before the decade is out.

Also, I think JP ism wrong in only planning for trips to space once the DSS is up and running. I'd like to see small satellite launchers (around 500kg into low orbit) plus small shuttles with a FIRST stlye reentry (two person, Richard Speck will be interested in this one) going as soon as a big enough Ascender is built (Monroe, this would be a place where you could apply any knowledge that Prometheus learns). Once a DSS is built, larger launches would occur, sending maybe 5 tonnes into Orbit. (It may be possible to send a 1 tonne 5 person spacecraft into Low Orbit with just the Ascender, thus winning Americas Space Prize if you get a move on.) Once that's done, the Orbital Airship would be built, making travel much safer and allowing heavier payloads to be carried.

It's time the space advocates got behind people like JP!

Terraformer
We defiantly like the folks over at JP and may someday be involved with them, the plan here is: altitude record, Orbit (N-Prize), Impact on the moon, Rendezvous, X-Prize, Impact Mars, Mars sample return and space junk. The two in the middle may be switched. After and during we hope to work on alternate propulsion systems (far-out ideas) I want to go faster than any have gone before. And if we ever get enough money offer a prize for speed records one order of magnitude at a time. Its time we stop dreaming and start going there. I believe timing is perfect and a new era of space exploration has begun. cowabunga! (Catch the wave!) Surf's Up!

Monroe

Well, the riskiest part of manned flight is reentry, and the IMP glider showed that isn't a risk anymore if the craft has large enough wings (not only do the wings keep it aloft, but they also act as big radiators), which can fold up during launch and flight, and alsom act through drag to deorbit the craft.

That leaves launch (I'm leaving out the actual flight, as that is the safest part of it, and is well within the range of amateurs). Leaving expensive fuels and alloys aside, we want the launcher to have an extremaly low cost per launch, ignoring safety margins. But we want to launch people on this craft. To ensure they are safe, the upper stage will have all the safety features, and be able to seperate from the main craft in the event of an emergency. Solids would probably be best for the job.

Whoa. I had no intention of insulting you Ekkehard, and if I did please accept my apologies. I also now realise that this thread was resurrected, and that I replied to something posted years ago. Oh well.

Anyway, if you're going to be flying like an aeroplane, then having wings with a large plan form area helps, because lift comes from pushing air downwards, and the larger the wing, the more air you're pushing. Also, the thinner the air, the less (in mass) air you're pushing with a given sized wing.

For the buoyant part of the trip, you need lots of volume, while the surface area is not important. In both cases, the thin air means you need a large structure, but the kind of large is slightly different .

Humm. Interesting, I like the idea. However I do not know. I have my doubts and I belive experinmentation is really what we need and I belive thats what JP is doing! Good for them and good luck.

Monroe

There are I believe some aerodynamics involved however small. Every little bit would help. I wonder if submarine theory would be something of intrest is this case?

Monroe

Well, submarines and ordinary airships and balloons all use buoyancy. I'm not sure if it has been tried to combine that with aerodynamic lift, but there is this flying submarine thing that may help.

Hey
Thats cool all it needs is hydrofoils to transition to the air and a jet engine! Kinda like the ATO with its foil and Ion drive or whatever it uses. Hummm I wonder if a fusor propulsion unit would work for JP?

Monroe