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Heavy Lift Vehicle
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Space Walker  
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:30 am
Posts: 236 Location: Perth, Western Australia 
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 Posted on: Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:36 amYep, I've ordered it. But I don't quite follow your argument about fewer launch purchases??
_________________ Beancounter from Downunder |
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Spaceflight Enthusiast  
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 3:07 pm
Posts: 3 Location: Bremerton, WA
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Posted on: Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:10 am The ribbon will need to be launched by conventional rocket into orbit. From there, the ribbon will be deployed downward to earth as the counterweight moves out beyond GEO.
The starting plan calls for a 'starter' ribbon which we're currently estimating is going to require between 5 and 8 launches of the Falcon 9 S9 or Saturn V sized launches. With a much larger launch payload, we can either send a wider/higher capacaty 'starter' or a little bit lower GPa material within the timeframe necessary to make it a viable commercial venture. (btw, thanks N.S., you're purchase is appreciated.) _________________ 10 years after everyone stops laughing. - Sir A. C. Clarke 2005 - They stopped laughing Want to know more about the LiftPort Space Elevator? Buy our book: LiftPort: The Space Elevator: Opening Space To Everyone |
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Space Station Commander 
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:25 am
Posts: 887
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Posted on: Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:03 pm beancounter wrote: Yep, I've ordered it. But I don't quite follow your argument about fewer launch purchases?? The less launches--the less assembly you have. Smaller rockets get you ISS assembly woes with DART tech. Not a winning combo. Build CaLV first--then Sea Dragon. Then SE. THAT is how you open up space. |
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Space Station Member  
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 4:16 am
Posts: 322
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Posted on: Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:08 pm publiusr wrote: beancounter wrote: Yep, I've ordered it. But I don't quite follow your argument about fewer launch purchases?? The less launches--the less assembly you have. Smaller rockets get you ISS assembly woes with DART tech. Not a winning combo. Build CaLV first--then Sea Dragon. Then SE. THAT is how you open up space. DART is not the end all, be all of automated orbital redezvous. HTV and ATV will be available soon. |
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Space Station Commander
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:25 am
Posts: 887
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Posted on: Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:13 pm Some links:
http://www.liftport.com/forums/showthre ... 3#post4303 HLLV http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/1497 ... h_full.jpg http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/explo ... ssign.html Ariane Next http://www.gaetanomarano.it/articles/007arianeX.html LSAM http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4713 CEV http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4680 Misc. http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/erthboom.htm http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=2763 |
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Launch Director 
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 1:54 pm
Posts: 16
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Posted on: Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:48 pm Actually,this maybe Araine's Next.
http://www.marssociety.de/emc/proceedings/Ferra.pdf Gaetano appearently got the Ariane X idea (and the 3x3 Super SLV) from this. |
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Launch Director
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 1:54 pm
Posts: 16
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Posted on: Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:26 pm WannabeSpaceCadet wrote: HLV, at least as big as CaLV, is needed. Personally, I think CaLV is not Heavy enough. It took a Saturn V to put just 2 men on the Moon for a couple of days at most. CaLV with about the same payload, wouldn't achieve much more in one launch, hence the CLV. To establish a useful presence, a lot more will be needed. That means many hundreds of EELV's, or dozens of HLV's. We really need a VHLV (Very Heavy Launch Vehicle) 400+ tons. Well, there is theSea Dragon. Is 450 mT to LEO good enough?  |
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Space Station Member 
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:12 am
Posts: 321 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted on: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:02 am offsprey5 wrote: WannabeSpaceCadet wrote: HLV, at least as big as CaLV, is needed. Personally, I think CaLV is not Heavy enough. It took a Saturn V to put just 2 men on the Moon for a couple of days at most. CaLV with about the same payload, wouldn't achieve much more in one launch, hence the CLV. To establish a useful presence, a lot more will be needed. That means many hundreds of EELV's, or dozens of HLV's. We really need a VHLV (Very Heavy Launch Vehicle) 400+ tons. Well, there is theSea Dragon. Is 450 mT to LEO good enough? That is what I was hinting at. 
Although my preference is a very large, 'one time' Orion. Put about 100,000 mT in orbit in one go, then use the 'empty' vehicle to cruise around the solar system, and as a work horse for big jobs like moving small ice moons. http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/orietary.htm |
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Space Station Commander
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:25 am
Posts: 887
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Posted on: Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:22 pm The anti-nukes won't allow it though.
Sea Dragon--in a fashion--is already being built--as the Neptune Spar Space-elevators may use this as well http://www.kerr-mcgee.com/operations/in ... /index.htm http://www.jraymcdermott.com/spartec/sp ... istory.htm http://www.rigzone.com/data/projects/pr ... ject_id=32 http://www.corrpro.com/solutions16.htm http://www.offshore-technology.com/projects/neptune/ http://www.tamu.edu/univrel/aggiedaily/ ... 896-2.html http://www.jraymcdermott.com/projects/Neptune__27.asp http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php? http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/c ... sodes.html http://www.anvilpub.com/epn_december.htm Cat=&Board=businesstech&Number=517773&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=2&vc=1#Post517773 Flexscraper for Space elevator guide channel? http://www.livescience.com/technology/0 ... raper.html Talk about MEGA-structures http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=businesstech&Number=514736&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart= http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=businesstech&Number=515433&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart= Mining in space http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Sudbu ... osium.html Location perhaps? http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Corks ... rhood.html Old asteroid hit: http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Possi ... ctica.html New hit: http://www.livescience.com/blogs/2006/0 ... meteorite/ http://www.space.com/businesstechnology ... puter.html Quark passage thru Earth--and the fourth Dim http://www.smu.edu/newsinfo/releases/01342.html Source? http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Quark ... _Bang.html From the web Exploration Program Update on NASA TV June 5 - announcement [quote] NASA Administrator Michael Griffin, Associate Administrator for the Exploration Systems Mission Directorate Scott Horowitz and Constellation Program Manager Jeff Hanley will brief the media about the exploration program and the work being assigned to NASA centers at 2:30 p.m. EDT Monday, June 5. Also on June 22: Moon, Mars and Beyond- Apollo on Steroids a webcast JPL lecture by Michael J. Sander Manager, JPL Exploration Systems and Technology Office. (These webcasts are usually archived several days later) Heavy Lift http://www.spacefellowship.com/Forum/vi ... 0484#20484 http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Steve ... icles.html http://www.space.com/news/060602_nasa_moonlegs.html Griffin Speaks out--and he's not alone: http://www.space-travel.com/reports/Gri ... ision.html http://www.space-travel.com/reports/Ste ... Stars.html http://www.space.com/adastra/adastra_le ... 60615.html Heavy Lift help? http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Griff ... sions.html But where is Kliper? http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Ca ... o=0&fpart= CEV http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/US_As ... _2014.html http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/NASA_ ... Tasks.html Engines http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Volvo ... nches.html http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Heavi ... Hitch.html http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Pratt ... Stage.html http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Mitsu ... ocket.html Atlas Centaur use http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 32&start=1 SRB discussion http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 66&start=1 Large Launch vehicle architecture http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 4&start=31 Dnepr http://www.tsniimash.ru/History/Utkin_kniga_eng.html http://www.kosmotras.ru/ Zenit as sub-orbital ride? http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 27&start=1 ESAS debate http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 6&posts=30 http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Ca ... o=0&fpart= Space Ferry http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=businesstech&Number=511021&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart= New players in Space: http://www.space.com/businesstechnology ... _cots.html http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/One_F ... Space.html http://www.space-travel.com/reports/Spa ... ement.html Fly-back booster http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=missions&Number=497064&page=5&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=1&vc=1 |
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Space Station Member
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 4:16 am
Posts: 322
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Posted on: Sat Jun 17, 2006 1:19 am Us poor sane people who'd rather not see an Orion liftoff from the earth's surface.
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Space Station Member
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:12 am
Posts: 321 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted on: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:42 am bad_astra wrote: Us poor sane people who'd rather not see an Orion liftoff from the earth's surface. A single, once-off launch would only increase the radioactive pollution in the Earth's atmosphere by about 1%. But I'll settle for Sea Dragon.  |
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Space Station Commander
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:25 am
Posts: 887
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Posted on: Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:33 pm As would I.
Papers on Heavy Lift--and why we need it:  http://pdf.aiaa.org/preview/1995/PV1995_3816.pdf
http://pdf.aiaa.org/preview/1988/PV1988_3023.pdf http://pdf.aiaa.org/preview/1990/PV1990_3686.pdf http://pdf.aiaa.org/preview/1992/PV1992_1652.pdf http://pdf.aiaa.org/preview/1992/PV1992_1550.pdf http://pdf.aiaa.org/preview/1989/PV1989_2521.pdf Interesting. Everyone may not agree on this: http://pdf.aiaa.org/jaPreview/JSR/2006/PVJA16244.pdf Previews only--go to AIAA for more. Speaking of Sea Dragon: http://www.up-ship.com/apr/extraupdate.htm http://www.up-ship.com/apr/extras/seadr ... dragon.htm http://www.up-ship.com/apr/apr.htm http://www.up-ship.com/ Soviet lift http://www.buran.ru/htm/mtkkmain.htm http://pdf.aiaa.org/preview/1995/PV1995_3816.pdf http://www.ceebd.co.uk/ceebd/molniy75.htm PS I just saw this off to the right: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/142200 ... 3?n=283155 |
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Space Station Commander
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:25 am
Posts: 887
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Posted on: Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:34 pm News:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?id=4589 http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/explo ... aming.html Nice links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuttle_De ... ch_Vehicle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ares_1 Sea Dragon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Dragon_%28Rocket%29 Almost over: http://www.aero.org/conferences/sclv/ Good Journal http://www.efluids.com/efluids/pages/j_ ... d_rock.htm OT http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/20 ... +Jeff.html OT R.E. Gold, 'SHIELD: a comprehensive earth protection architecture', Advanced Space Research, vol 28, 2001, pp1149-158[/QUOTE] Misc. links: http://www.liftport.com/forums/showthre ... 2#post4482 http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic ... 0251#90251 http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=33414&page=3 http://www.lpi.usra.edu/CASS_home.html |
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Space Station Commander
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:25 am
Posts: 887
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Posted on: Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:39 am HLLV
http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/151420main_aresV_factsheet.pdf http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/magnum.htm http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/cont ... 3/30.shtml http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/phpB ... &start=990 Other options: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 5&start=76 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... ntid=10222 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... entid=9638 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... ntid=10621 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... ntid=10617 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... ntid=10582 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... entid=6541 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 6&posts=52 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... ntid=10583 HLLV paths http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 5&start=61 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 25&start=1 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... &start=121 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 37&start=1 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... &start=106 Missions http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4865 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... ntid=10708 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... entid=9668 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... entid=9778 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 17&start=1 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... =5&start=1 From http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 45&start=1 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 5&start=76 http://simcosmos.planetaclix.pt/ http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 19&start=1 CEV pics http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 15&start=1 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 5&start=76 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 5&start=91 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... ntid=10618 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 6&start=16 Pad pics http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 71&start=1 Alternatives The private front: 3A//www.spacex.com/press25.php http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewnews.rss.html?id=1095 http://www.spacex.com/gallery/cots5_large.jpg http://www.spacex.com/gallery/cots4_large.jpg http://www.space.com/news/060821_planet ... reton.html http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Canad ... t_999.html http://www.space.com/news/060818_nasa_cots_wrap.html http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Orbit ... e_999.html http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/NASA_ ... r_999.html http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/06 ... _musk.html http://www.space.com/news/060818_griffin_interview.html |
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Spaceflight Trainee 
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:05 am
Posts: 49
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Posted on: Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:04 pm FerrisValyn wrote: That was a bit of a cheap shot. In anycase, the problem with that is that makes it overly dependent on the idea of a continued threat, something I think most people would have a problem with. What they are pushing is to create a new cold war with China. And that won't work, as a long term policy goal. Griffin is going to China |
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