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Heavy Lift Vehicle

Posted by: Andy Hill - Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:02 am
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Heavy Lift Vehicle 
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Space Walker
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Post    Posted on: Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:36 am
Yep, I've ordered it. But I don't quite follow your argument about fewer launch purchases??

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Spaceflight Enthusiast
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Post    Posted on: Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:10 am
The ribbon will need to be launched by conventional rocket into orbit. From there, the ribbon will be deployed downward to earth as the counterweight moves out beyond GEO.

The starting plan calls for a 'starter' ribbon which we're currently estimating is going to require between 5 and 8 launches of the Falcon 9 S9 or Saturn V sized launches.

With a much larger launch payload, we can either send a wider/higher capacaty 'starter' or a little bit lower GPa material within the timeframe necessary to make it a viable commercial venture.

(btw, thanks N.S., you're purchase is appreciated.)

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Space Station Commander
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Post    Posted on: Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:03 pm
beancounter wrote:
Yep, I've ordered it. But I don't quite follow your argument about fewer launch purchases??


The less launches--the less assembly you have. Smaller rockets get you ISS assembly woes with DART tech.

Not a winning combo.

Build CaLV first--then Sea Dragon. Then SE. THAT is how you open up space.


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Post    Posted on: Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:08 pm
publiusr wrote:
beancounter wrote:
Yep, I've ordered it. But I don't quite follow your argument about fewer launch purchases??


The less launches--the less assembly you have. Smaller rockets get you ISS assembly woes with DART tech.

Not a winning combo.

Build CaLV first--then Sea Dragon. Then SE. THAT is how you open up space.


DART is not the end all, be all of automated orbital redezvous. HTV and ATV will be available soon.


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Space Station Commander
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Post    Posted on: Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:13 pm
Some links:
http://www.liftport.com/forums/showthre ... 3#post4303

HLLV
http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/1497 ... h_full.jpg
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/explo ... ssign.html

Ariane Next
http://www.gaetanomarano.it/articles/007arianeX.html

LSAM
http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4713
CEV
http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4680


Misc.
http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/erthboom.htm
http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=2763


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Launch Director
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Post    Posted on: Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:48 pm
Actually,this maybe Araine's Next.

http://www.marssociety.de/emc/proceedings/Ferra.pdf


Gaetano appearently got the Ariane X idea (and the 3x3 Super SLV) from this.


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Launch Director
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Post    Posted on: Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:26 pm
WannabeSpaceCadet wrote:
HLV, at least as big as CaLV, is needed. Personally, I think CaLV is not Heavy enough. It took a Saturn V to put just 2 men on the Moon for a couple of days at most. CaLV with about the same payload, wouldn't achieve much more in one launch, hence the CLV. To establish a useful presence, a lot more will be needed. That means many hundreds of EELV's, or dozens of HLV's.

We really need a VHLV (Very Heavy Launch Vehicle) 400+ tons.



Well, there is theSea Dragon. Is 450 mT to LEO good enough? :twisted:


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Post    Posted on: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:02 am
offsprey5 wrote:
WannabeSpaceCadet wrote:
HLV, at least as big as CaLV, is needed. Personally, I think CaLV is not Heavy enough. It took a Saturn V to put just 2 men on the Moon for a couple of days at most. CaLV with about the same payload, wouldn't achieve much more in one launch, hence the CLV. To establish a useful presence, a lot more will be needed. That means many hundreds of EELV's, or dozens of HLV's.

We really need a VHLV (Very Heavy Launch Vehicle) 400+ tons.



Well, there is theSea Dragon. Is 450 mT to LEO good enough? :twisted:


That is what I was hinting at. :wink:

Although my preference is a very large, 'one time' Orion. Put about 100,000 mT in orbit in one go, then use the 'empty' vehicle to cruise around the solar system, and as a work horse for big jobs like moving small ice moons.

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/orietary.htm


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Space Station Commander
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Post    Posted on: Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:22 pm
The anti-nukes won't allow it though.


Sea Dragon--in a fashion--is already being built--as the Neptune Spar
Space-elevators may use this as well
http://www.kerr-mcgee.com/operations/in ... /index.htm
http://www.jraymcdermott.com/spartec/sp ... istory.htm
http://www.rigzone.com/data/projects/pr ... ject_id=32
http://www.corrpro.com/solutions16.htm
http://www.offshore-technology.com/projects/neptune/
http://www.tamu.edu/univrel/aggiedaily/ ... 896-2.html
http://www.jraymcdermott.com/projects/Neptune__27.asp
http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/c ... sodes.html
http://www.anvilpub.com/epn_december.htm
Cat=&Board=businesstech&Number=517773&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=2&vc=1#Post517773

Flexscraper for Space elevator guide channel?
http://www.livescience.com/technology/0 ... raper.html


Talk about MEGA-structures
http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=businesstech&Number=514736&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=
http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=businesstech&Number=515433&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=


Mining in space
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Sudbu ... osium.html

Location perhaps?
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Corks ... rhood.html


Old asteroid hit:
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Possi ... ctica.html

New hit:
http://www.livescience.com/blogs/2006/0 ... meteorite/
http://www.space.com/businesstechnology ... puter.html

Quark passage thru Earth--and the fourth Dim
http://www.smu.edu/newsinfo/releases/01342.html

Source?
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Quark ... _Bang.html


From the web

Exploration Program Update on NASA TV June 5 - announcement
[quote]
NASA Administrator Michael Griffin, Associate Administrator for the Exploration Systems Mission Directorate Scott Horowitz and Constellation Program Manager Jeff Hanley will brief the media about the exploration program and the work being assigned to NASA centers at 2:30 p.m. EDT Monday, June 5.

Also on June 22: Moon, Mars and Beyond- Apollo on Steroids a webcast JPL lecture by Michael J. Sander Manager, JPL Exploration Systems and Technology Office. (These webcasts are usually archived several days later)

Heavy Lift
http://www.spacefellowship.com/Forum/vi ... 0484#20484
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Steve ... icles.html
http://www.space.com/news/060602_nasa_moonlegs.html


Griffin Speaks out--and he's not alone:
http://www.space-travel.com/reports/Gri ... ision.html
http://www.space-travel.com/reports/Ste ... Stars.html
http://www.space.com/adastra/adastra_le ... 60615.html


Heavy Lift help?
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Griff ... sions.html

But where is Kliper?
http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Ca ... o=0&fpart=

CEV
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/US_As ... _2014.html
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/NASA_ ... Tasks.html

Engines
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Volvo ... nches.html
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Heavi ... Hitch.html
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Pratt ... Stage.html
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Mitsu ... ocket.html

Atlas Centaur use
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 32&start=1


SRB discussion
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 66&start=1

Large Launch vehicle architecture
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 4&start=31

Dnepr
http://www.tsniimash.ru/History/Utkin_kniga_eng.html
http://www.kosmotras.ru/

Zenit as sub-orbital ride?
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 27&start=1

ESAS debate
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 6&posts=30

http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Ca ... o=0&fpart=

Space Ferry
http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=businesstech&Number=511021&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=

New players in Space:
http://www.space.com/businesstechnology ... _cots.html
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/One_F ... Space.html
http://www.space-travel.com/reports/Spa ... ement.html

Fly-back booster
http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=missions&Number=497064&page=5&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=1&vc=1


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Space Station Member
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Post    Posted on: Sat Jun 17, 2006 1:19 am
Us poor sane people who'd rather not see an Orion liftoff from the earth's surface. :roll:


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Post    Posted on: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:42 am
bad_astra wrote:
Us poor sane people who'd rather not see an Orion liftoff from the earth's surface. :roll:


A single, once-off launch would only increase the radioactive pollution in the Earth's atmosphere by about 1%.

But I'll settle for Sea Dragon. :lol:


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Space Station Commander
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Post    Posted on: Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:33 pm
As would I.

Papers on Heavy Lift--and why we need it:

:arrow: http://pdf.aiaa.org/preview/1995/PV1995_3816.pdf

http://pdf.aiaa.org/preview/1988/PV1988_3023.pdf

http://pdf.aiaa.org/preview/1990/PV1990_3686.pdf

http://pdf.aiaa.org/preview/1992/PV1992_1652.pdf

http://pdf.aiaa.org/preview/1992/PV1992_1550.pdf

http://pdf.aiaa.org/preview/1989/PV1989_2521.pdf

Interesting. Everyone may not agree on this:
http://pdf.aiaa.org/jaPreview/JSR/2006/PVJA16244.pdf

Previews only--go to AIAA for more.

Speaking of Sea Dragon:
http://www.up-ship.com/apr/extraupdate.htm
http://www.up-ship.com/apr/extras/seadr ... dragon.htm
http://www.up-ship.com/apr/apr.htm
http://www.up-ship.com/

Soviet lift
http://www.buran.ru/htm/mtkkmain.htm
http://pdf.aiaa.org/preview/1995/PV1995_3816.pdf
http://www.ceebd.co.uk/ceebd/molniy75.htm

PS I just saw this off to the right:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/142200 ... 3?n=283155


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Space Station Commander
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Post    Posted on: Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:34 pm
News:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?id=4589
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/explo ... aming.html

Nice links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuttle_De ... ch_Vehicle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ares_1

Sea Dragon:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Dragon_%28Rocket%29

Almost over:
http://www.aero.org/conferences/sclv/

Good Journal
http://www.efluids.com/efluids/pages/j_ ... d_rock.htm

OT
http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/20 ... +Jeff.html

OT
R.E. Gold, 'SHIELD: a comprehensive earth protection architecture', Advanced Space Research, vol 28, 2001, pp1149-158[/QUOTE]

Misc. links:
http://www.liftport.com/forums/showthre ... 2#post4482
http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic ... 0251#90251
http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=33414&page=3

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/CASS_home.html


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Space Station Commander
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Post    Posted on: Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:39 am
HLLV

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/151420main_aresV_factsheet.pdf
http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/magnum.htm
http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/cont ... 3/30.shtml
http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/phpB ... &start=990


Other options:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 5&start=76
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... ntid=10222
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... entid=9638
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... ntid=10621
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... ntid=10617
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... ntid=10582
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... entid=6541
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 6&posts=52
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... ntid=10583 HLLV paths
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 5&start=61
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 25&start=1
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... &start=121
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 37&start=1
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... &start=106

Missions
http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4865
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... ntid=10708
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... entid=9668
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... entid=9778
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 17&start=1
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... =5&start=1

From http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 45&start=1
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 5&start=76

http://simcosmos.planetaclix.pt/

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 19&start=1 CEV pics
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 15&start=1

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 5&start=76
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 5&start=91
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... ntid=10618

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 6&start=16 Pad pics
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums ... 71&start=1 Alternatives


The private front:
3A//www.spacex.com/press25.php
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewnews.rss.html?id=1095
http://www.spacex.com/gallery/cots5_large.jpg
http://www.spacex.com/gallery/cots4_large.jpg
http://www.space.com/news/060821_planet ... reton.html
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Canad ... t_999.html
http://www.space.com/news/060818_nasa_cots_wrap.html
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Orbit ... e_999.html
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/NASA_ ... r_999.html

http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/06 ... _musk.html
http://www.space.com/news/060818_griffin_interview.html


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Spaceflight Trainee
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Post    Posted on: Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:04 pm
FerrisValyn wrote:
That was a bit of a cheap shot.

In anycase, the problem with that is that makes it overly dependent on the idea of a continued threat, something I think most people would have a problem with. What they are pushing is to create a new cold war with China. And that won't work, as a long term policy goal.



Griffin is going to China


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