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Congratulations China!

Posted by: eXcaliberZ - Thu Oct 16, 2003 4:20 am
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Congratulations China! 
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Post Congratulations China!   Posted on: Thu Oct 16, 2003 4:20 am
I was pretty angry because i missed the launch...

but

Congratualtions China on becoming the third nation to send a human into space!!

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Post    Posted on: Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:15 pm
They're only about 41 years behind the times.


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Post    Posted on: Fri Oct 17, 2003 1:08 am
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They're only about 41 years behind the times.


Yes, 41 years behind, of what the US did, but they will develop way faster as the US and Russia did in the past.
Using new technology and hardware, "imported" technology...
Don't forget how OLD the space shutles are. (the 2 who didn't explode, 1/2 is already history... and 10 years needed before the next kind may arrive if current actions stay as they are)

They(China) are planning to make a space station AND several "special" vehicles to put the hardware in orbit, maybe a new space shutle style vehicle ? Or maybe just a very advanced rocket, but I *think* (not sure) they will chose for the re-useable space shutle style. (or maybe on the long run they will chose it) (people with more info, comments are welcome)

Their plans to have a permanent base on the moon in 15 years is also very great and I think a communistic crountry that LOVES space now, will for sure keep it the huge country pride and develop it more and more, as said by china before 2005 (2 years) will be the next rocket launch (of that type).
And they have already years of experiance in satelite launches.
Manned space was canceled several times before... else china would already had a man in space in the 80ties.

From official figures, you may find out that china has a very large potential and 1/15 of the earth's land mass. (Cia Factbook)

Other figures show that China will bypass the US on the world in 40 years and in computer hardware in 10 years (there're also more humens who buy hardware in china ;)).

http://www.nrc.nl/images/industrielandenB370.gif
http://www.nrc.nl/images/indiaB370,0.gif

If you read history, you'll find out, country powers switch in years... in europ more people are getting old, monney will be needed to pay them, while in china they will have years before that problem AND with the 1 child limit, they will have a less large impact, cause it will go smooth, without too large diffrences.

The romen empire... could never go under.. it did, several others are the same example... I don't think that the US or europ will go under or so, on they long run it can be (people who think it can't, read your history ;)), but I'm sure china and india will bypass our countries in technology and economy.

(sorry if my english isn't perfect, I'm dutch).
Kind Regards,
Sigurd


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Post    Posted on: Fri Oct 17, 2003 8:29 pm
Anonymous wrote:
They're only about 41 years behind the times.


Hmmmm....

We're pretty far behind the times too, if you look at any historical analogies. Fourty years after the first practical automobile was made, most families in the industrial world owned one. Fourty years after the Wright Brothers made their first flight, thousands of commercial airliners crisscrossed the globe.

Well, it's been 40 years... where's the orbital hotels? Where's my lunar safari?

Also, did you miss the part where they're only the third country in history to do it? Just how far behind does that put them?


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Post    Posted on: Sun Oct 19, 2003 10:14 pm
There is no technological reason that any number of other countries couldn't have put men into space 20 years ago - Britain, France, Japan, Germany to name a few. But there are no compelling economic reasons to do so. China put a man in space for purely nationalistic and militaristic reasons.


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Post There actually not as far back as you'd think.   Posted on: Mon Oct 20, 2003 1:39 am
When you think about it, China's actually not that far behind the US and Russia. Sure, they're using 30-year old tech, but the shuttle is 25 years old. For the mathmatically-challenged, that equates to the good ol' People's Reublic as only being 5 years behind us :shock: .

China really should not try to build a space shuttle unless it does the following things. First, they have to use it, a lot. As in about 20 launches a year. As the money wasting shuttle shows you have to launch a reusable vehicle very often to be more cost-effective, something it can't do. Second, they have to have a reason for doing so. A space station can do everything just as well, if not better, than a spacelab in the cargo bay can, so the only reason you need one is if you're gonna be hauling extremely heavy objects into LEO/GEO very often. If the China shuttle can't meet either of those requirements, they shouldn't bother, as it will actually be cheaper to use disposable rockets.

I really like what China has going, and they really should try to build that moon base. I'm sick of seeing NASA sitting back dragging their heels like they have no goal or ambition at all (which they probably don't). Go get 'em, China!

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Post    Posted on: Mon Oct 20, 2003 12:52 pm
Anonymous wrote:
China put a man in space for purely nationalistic and militaristic reasons.

I think you are severely mistaken, and a lot of others, particularly media has fallen to this trap.
To sum this post up, some think that China has embarked on a long quest of actually getting a foothold off this rock.
Thats what i think, too. I think China has carefully watched and learned, while others have been going around in circles. They chose the best, most efficient technology available today ( Soyuz IS the cheapest and most reliable manned spacecraft available today ), learned from its faults and successes, and built their own.
They are well aware of all the old grandiose plans to build lunar bases, solar power sats and utilizing space resources for benefit of the humankind. I think its very well possible to come up with an affordable, carefully planned and cautious path that nation the size of China can implement, so that perhaps after a couple of decades, their efforts will somehow pay off. Be it their first orbital power station, imported PGM metals from NEOs or just simply a vibrant space launch industry that all others will be using to launch their satellites. Perhaps they'll be selling lunar-manufactured solar panels for LEO and GEO satellites, perhaps rocket fuel.
Whatever it is, i dont think Chinese are simply so stupid, that they would just be pulling a stunt or a simple showoff program. They have a plan they could develop learning from _A LOT_ of mistakes of giants, whose shoulders they are now standing on.


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Post Always these Wright brothers !   Posted on: Thu Oct 23, 2003 1:04 pm
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Fourty years after the Wright Brothers made their first flight,


Always these Wright brothers. Example of American revisionism. It is Clément Ader who invented the plane


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Post Re: Always these Wright brothers !   Posted on: Thu Oct 23, 2003 2:13 pm
Anonymous wrote:
Always these Wright brothers. Example of American revisionism. It is Clément Ader who invented the plane


Technically it was Leonardo Da Vinci who invented the plane. He never built one, but that's beside the point. In any case, it's not who first invented it that matters, it's who first actually built one they designed, and flew it.


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Post Wright Brothers & China   Posted on: Sat Oct 25, 2003 12:53 am
Orville & Wilbur had a long-term vision for flight even in their first flight.
First catapult launch. First twin Propellers. First canard wing. Etc. And they never stopped dreaming.

100 years later look where we are.

Now China has a really long term vision, typically in terms of generations where we think in terms of years.

NASA can not dream it way out of a paper bag. If we are to progress, we need to dream of what can be in the next 5, 10, 50 years.


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Post NASA is dead. Long live the ESA!   Posted on: Sun Oct 26, 2003 12:15 am
TerraMrs wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
It is Clément Ader who invented the plane

Technically it was Leonardo Da Vinci who invented the plane.


Ummm, sorry to burst your bubbles, but the Wright Brothers did in fact invent the airplane. Ader only managed a couple of tiny, uncontrolled hops and Da Vinci, while he did dish out a few ideas, contributed almost nothing to the aeronautical industry except for a few ramblings on ornithopters. The Wrights were the first to achieve sustained, controllable flight, albeit in a downright awful airplane. They get the prize hands down.

I agree with traveler. Right now NASA has absolutely no goal and no ambition. What the sadest part of it is is that the general public thinks that space travel is a leftover fad from the cold war, like disco and bomb shelters, and should be euthanized. Imagine what would have happened if the Europeans had felt that going to the New World was a "fad" and stopped funding expiditions 20 years after Columbus. Where does that leave us? In any case, NASA suffers from this apathetic public and the fact that it's led by a bunch of penny-pinching beurocrats who honestly could care less about goals and vision. NASA is dead.

On the other hand, the ESA looks kinda promising. They're sending out numerous probes, but they to are plauged by a lack of goals in manned space flight. China on the other hand, is our best bet. They have clear goals and a sure vision, along with the means to get there. While a communist government gets into sticky things like human rights issues, one thing they're good about is that they stick to goals (ie the Three Gorges Dam). Go China!

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Post    Posted on: Wed Oct 29, 2003 9:42 am
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China on the other hand, is our best bet. They have clear goals and a sure vision, along with the means to get there. While a communist government gets into sticky things like human rights issues, one thing they're good about is that they stick to goals (ie the Three Gorges Dam). Go China!


Japan's JAXA might have a few surprises in store for us. That new re-usable, vertical take-off contraption they're working on will hopefully lead to something useful and avoid the fate of the DC-X. Sure, it's suborbital but it might be a warm-up exercise for something more ambitious.


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Post    Posted on: Thu Oct 30, 2003 12:59 am
I'm inclined to agree with the view that China's recent achievment is hardly a milestone in history but simply a nation 41 years behind the times.

Firstly, the technology they used was old and bought-in. Sure, the American space shuttles are 30 year-old technology but then they've been running them for 23 years. China's technology is simply revamped russian technology and represents little in the way of innovation.

However, much more significant than the actual technology is the nature of the Chinese space agency itself - it's a dinosaur. Not so much because of the technology they're using (though it is uninspired) but because of the fact that it is a hugely expensive govermental instrument employing vast amounts of labour and throwing huge amounts of resources at the task.

If, as has been speculated, China does embark on an ambitious space programme, it will be in the same way that the USA and USSR did so in the sixties, by throwing the weight of a huge national effort behind it.

If the X-prize is out to prove one thing, it's that the future of space lies with private enterprise and innovating individuals and it is to organisations such as the X-prize contestants that I'm looking to pave the way for our future in space, not to China.


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Post    Posted on: Thu Oct 30, 2003 9:29 am
I agree with wslogue. China's government space program is likely to be even more bureaucratic than NASA's. But then again, China can put a man in space next month, but NASA can't.

Now here is the good news! There may be some XPRIZE teams that can put men into space before NASA. And several private companies are planning orbital and even lunar operations for profit.

But there is a curious development in China, the entrepreneur and the generation of real wealth in the business class and rapidly growing middle class.

I heard something recently from the visionary Peter Drucker.

"China will be the economic power of the next century, when the Chinese think of the automobile as a necessity rather than a luxury."

Imagine a billion plus people buying and operating automobiles, who do not own them today. This is an economic and political movement of epic proportions. Just look at the numbers.

From the prospective of space development, the number of financially able Chinese, willing to invest in private space programs or buy space flights, may exceed those in the USA.

It will not happen overnight. But it will happen faster than most us think. :D


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Post    Posted on: Thu Oct 30, 2003 9:14 pm
personally, i agree. the u.s. is still the forrunner in technology, but in terms of political freedoms, several parts of europe have already surpassed us, and asia is catching up. the u.s. economy is failing right now, and though it is still probably the biggest in the world, the fact is that china will probably, relatively soon, be the premier economic power in the world. most importantly though, u.s. foreign and scientific policy seems to be becoming too reactive. i think that by 2025, if economic trends continue as they have over the last 10 years, china will be a rising superpower, and the u.s. will be fading. now, this will probably not be true, at least the part about the u.s. fading, if we get some competent and visionary leadership over here, but with the current system of election and popular opinion, that seems unlikely.


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