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Reasons why no japanese team competed

Posted by: Ekkehard Augustin - Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:28 pm
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Reasons why no japanese team competed 
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Post Reasons why no japanese team competed   Posted on: Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:28 pm
What do you think for what reason there never was a japanese team competing for the XPRIZE?

Their JRS has designed a very heavy and huge vehicle - the Kankoh-Maru.

Is it the economic situation? Their culture? Anything else?

Which way their interest could be got? ...



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Post    Posted on: Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:13 pm
I don't know... why isn't there a German, France, Spain, Belgian etc team ?

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Post    Posted on: Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:02 pm
Germany is going to develop a private funded microsat-launcher first. The german industry is working on it.

The reason to ask especially for a japanese team is that the japanese JRS is working on a touristic spaceliner since nearly a decade - but no Japanese developed a vehcile competing for the XPRIZE. Kawasaki produced a subscale version of the Kankoh-Maru - but didn't try to win the XPRIZE.

The Japaneses are fond of sensations and would like to prove some superiority but it seems that nobody tried to use this for getting funds to build a japanese suborbital vehicle as a first step towards the Kankoh-Maru.

And I would like to see Japaneses discussing here. There was at least one Asian discussing here last year - it was koxinga as far as I remember. I don't know if koxinga was from Japan.

Would be interesting to read issues from people of that country where the Kankoh-Maru-idea was created.



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Post    Posted on: Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:58 pm
Ekkehard Augustin wrote:
Kawasaki produced a subscale version of the Kankoh-Maru
I think that was a subscale mockup, not an operational vehicle.


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Post    Posted on: Sat Jun 18, 2005 8:34 am
Yes - I didn't remember the word "mock-up" when I wrote that post.

The point is that Kawasaki is involved in teh study, was interested obviously to create that mockup and so might be interested too to consturct and build the vehicle.

The XPRIZE as well as the ASP are good opportunities for Kawasaki or the JRS to initiate an evolution leading to the realization pf the Kankoh-Maru. They could have started with a suborbital version and then let follow an orbital version. Of the orbital version they could construct larger and larger new versions according to the market(s) to achieve the economies of scale.

Or they could have encouraged other Japaneses - but nobody did.

XPRIZE and ASP would be good opportunities to push their thoughts to become reality.



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Post    Posted on: Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:20 am
I assume they didn't have funding.

You know, with all the good ideas, like DC-X, that get cancelled or never funded, it makes you wonder. Maybe there is something to all those stories about aliens already visiting Earth, the government knows all about it, and they are trying to keep us out of space to keep the secret. :shock:


just kidding


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Post    Posted on: Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:29 pm
Ekkehard Augustin wrote:
I don't know if koxinga was from Japan.


For the record, I am not from Japan. 8) But from Asia, yes. Oh, I am always lurking around here...

I suppose cultural differences play a part. Space is something not in the public eye and even if it is, it is with refererence to the US space program or their own domestic , government funded space programs. While tinkerers are around, there is no one seriously interested in building a rocket ship. (the inevitable question "what's the practical value in that" surfaces).. The lack of people with sufficient knowledge is also one reason. People who deal with serious rockets almost always worked for the military with the exception perhaps of Japan and to some degree SK).

Few folks are interested in 'Zubrin' talk abt the future of humanity in space. Such world view havent caught on over here.


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Post    Posted on: Thu Jun 23, 2005 4:28 pm
koxinga wrote:
"what's the practical value in that"
You have identified the main problem with space flight. There is no practical value. No profits to be made. Except for communications satellites of course. Not yet anyway. I really hope suborbital flights make a big profit and change that situation. But we will have to wait several years to see if that really will come true.


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Post    Posted on: Mon Jun 27, 2005 1:13 pm
As of right now, the hope of tourism's pretty much all we've got. If we can get to orbit, and finance a few exploratory missions out to the Asteroid Belt, we might get some industry in place. I seriously stress might.

By the way, koxinga, since you're here (or maybe I should say "there", wherever "there" is): you said that most people in Asia seem to lack the technical knowledge to strike out on their own and build a rocket, yet here in the States we continuously hear about how much better "your" educational systems are (like any foreign country, the American media has the infuriating tendency to lump entire continents together as one group), and how many more of "you" are earning science and engineering degrees.

Anyways, I'm just asking for your opinion of the educational systems in your (and now I actually mean you personally) own area.

I bring this up because my mother told me of an article she was reading, harping on the educational disparity between the US and all them other nasty people who inhabit the rest of the planet. I'm pretty sure that this article was the one she saw.

Journal Staff and Wire Report wrote:
According to the most recent data from the National Science Foundation, 1.2 million of the world's 2.8 million university degrees in science and engineering in 2000 were earned by Asian students in Asian universities, with only 400,000 granted in the United States.


Of course, my mother was rather upset with me when I laughed at her (it's not nice, I know, but it was too hard not to do it) and pointed out how many more of "you" there were to begin with...

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Post    Posted on: Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:09 am
spacecowboy,

A 'better' education is relative. FYI, the reverse is going on over here. Alot of Asian countries are questioning the merits of their education system. While many asian nations may have better high schoolers, they don't necessarily turn out to be better than their western counterparts in the end.

The issue at stake is innovation and risk taking which is not culturally ingrained. The typical Asian parents want/expect their kids to well academically, get into a good university and get a job in a MNC or the civil service. Not become a backyard rocketeer and try to change theworld.

In the end, it is the end result that matters correct?


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Post    Posted on: Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:24 am
Hello, koxinga,

what is an MNC?



Here in Germany nearly each asian student - especially Chineses and Japaneses - prove to be more disciplined and concentrated on academical success than others. May be that this has been recognized in the US too.

spacecowboy, was it that what you mentioned?

On the other hand - what if nothing innovative is done with academical success?



Koxinga, I am delighted that you started to post again at the forums. The reason to start this post was that the Japanese Rocket Society (JRS) has developed the reference vehicle Kankoh-Maru and that Kawasaki is involved. Does the JRS isolated or simply of no meaning? It seems to be non-governmental.

Do you have informations about this?



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Post    Posted on: Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:43 am
Ekkehard hit the nail right on the head: nearly every high-school exchange student that I've heard of has out-performed the locals in academics, and occaisonally on atheletics (although that's somewhat rare -- not many students come over here for sports, which is not to say that they can't play or aren't interested). "Chinese" (read: all East Asian -- Korea is usually barely recognized as a separate country) students are generally recognized as being far superior to American students in science and math (especially math).

koxinga: MNC == Multi-National Corporation? (completely random guess here) Anyway, thanks for the reply. And yes, at least in my opinion (the value of which is highly suspect, by the way), the end result of the child's education is what matters the most.

It seems -- especially in light of an earlier conversation that Ekkehard and I had on the differences between the American and German education systems -- that most countries are dissatisfied with their schools.

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Post    Posted on: Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:01 pm
People often wonder, I always did, why Asian students do so well in school. Well now I know. I married an Asian woman and my children are doing very well in school. It is because sergeant mom makes them. Growing up with an Asian mother is like growing up in marine corps boot camp.


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Post    Posted on: Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:33 pm
I'm now working in Japan (yep, the big move was the main reason I haven't been around here much lately - it's taken a while for my wife and myself to get settled in here), and spend a good chunk of time in the high-schools. The reason for their success, as Peter pointed out, is the sheer time and effort that they put into their studies. I don't see their home life much at all, but I'm always seeing students working hard and studying (both in junior and senior high school) well outside of school hours. Right now it is their summer break, and most students seem to either be in cram school, or are spending several hours a day at school studying for upcoming exams.

I've been trying to feel around for interest (and stir some up myself) in the whole private space arena, but seem to be having quite a hard time seeing any real sparks of interest in return. From my gaijin perspective here, it seems as if koxinga is a little closer in how innovation and individualistic 'breaking away' from the status quo seem much less culturally ingrained. Now, that being said, I know many a Nihon-dweller who would be incredibly proud if his company were to suddenly take an interest in becoming a global leader in private space technology.

Ekkehard (et al),
I'm trying to find out more about Kawasaki's pet project, if I find anything not already mentioned, I'll let you know.


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Post    Posted on: Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:48 pm
Okay... If I read that right, slycker, I can extrapolate that although the individual would not him or her self attempt such an enterprise, he or she would be extremely supportive if The Boss decided to do so. Interesting, if nothing else. I guess that means that we need to start talking to The Bosses.

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